How do I get the grout stain out of my porcelain tiles?
By Ian Taylor on May 24, 2010 in Porcelain, Stain Removal
I recently received a question from Chris Rayner, as it is such a common issue I thought I would share it with everyone. Thanks for the question Chris, hope this helps to answer it for you:
Hi, I have a big problem. My Tiler has just started to grout the lovely porcelain tiles in my new kitchen using dark grout on the pale tiles. But the grout has stained the tiles! On close inspection the box of the tiles says they should be sealed and the company accepts no responsibility. Can I get the dark grout out of the tiles? We have already tried HG Cement Grout film remover. Thanks, Chris…
Hopefully, this will help, but a lot depends on the tile and grout:
Firstly, the problem arises due to tiny, microscopic holes in the surface of the porcelain, These are like air bubbles under the surface which, when the tile is polished (which means grinding away the surface until smooth) have their tops taken off, thus we get small irregular holes, not always big enough to see with the naked eye, but certainly big enough to become filled with grout.
Now imagine lots of these little holes all filling up with grout, in the same way that lots of tiny pixels make up a digital image, lots of these filled holes make up the appearance of a stain. The problem is that it can be very difficult, and I’m afraid, in some cases, almost impossible to remove.
The diagram below shows the holes in a standard porcelain:
In the next diagram the dotted line indicates the amount of tile that will be removed during the polishing process. As you can see, the polishing will ‘take the tops off’ the holes:
In the last diagram, you can see that the newly exposed holes can now be filled with the grout to create the staining effect you see:
The grout is usually made up of three basic components: Cement, sand and a man-made, synthetic latex or polymer. Grouts may also be tinted with a pigment. The micro-pores are not normally big enough to accept the sand grains so they usually become filled with pigmented cement and or the polymer.
If you were dealing with just a cement (no polymer) then the product you have tried might well have done the trick – a standard mild acid cleaner (that one is based on a dilute phosphoric acid which is ok, please avoid cleaners based on hydrochloric acid or HCL). However, often there is a combination of polymer and the pigmented cement. This creates a problem because we cannot simply rely on an acidic cleaner as the polymer shields the cement from the acid, rendering it ineffective.
So we also need to use a solvent to go after the polymer. A solvent such as Sealer & Coating Remover will soften and break down the polymer, while it is in this state we can use the acid to attack the now less protected cement. In the worst cases we would also consider adding Nanoscrub. We do this for two reasons, the nano-technology will allow the liquids we are using (that is the Sealer & Coating Remover and Phosphoric Acid type cleaner) to ‘relax’ and penetrate the micro pores more effectively. And secondly, the abrasive particles will help to safely grind out the grout without damaging the tile.
Here is the procedure I would recommend you try:
Suggested products by Aqua Mix: Sealer & Coating Remover, Phosphoric Acid Substitute, Nanoscrub
- Sweep or vacuum the floor
- Apply Sealer & Coating Remover NEAT and spread over the floor
- Leave the Sealer & Coating Remover to dwell for between 30 minutes and 1 hour, keep it wet with more SCR if required
- Now mix the Phos Acid Substitute with water (between 1:5 and 1:10) and ADD it to the solution of SCR still on the floor
- Leave both solutions for a few more minutes then agitate with a white nylon pad
- At this stage add in a small amount of Nanoscrub – you may notice some fizzing – this will be the acidic cleaner reacting with the calcium in the Nanoscrub but this should be minimal as the acid should be nearly exhausted or ‘spent’ having reacted with the cement in the grout. We are adding the Nanoscrub now to make use of the calcium abrasive on the now weakened cement/polymer residue.
- Use a squeegee to remove the slurry so you can see how you are doing, mop or wet vac the slurry up.
- Using fresh clean water, rinse the floor, mop or wet vac up the rinse water
- Polish the floor dry with an old towel.
Hope this helps
Ian
tracey | Oct 11, 2010 | Reply
hi i have a problem with my porcelian high gloss tiles. i have tried lots of cleaners smear free and also a heavy duty cleaner. they seem to have as film on them and when u start to walk on them there would b footprints in like a grime in the tiles even when there dry have to wash them everynite at the minute i am using a small drop of fiary liquid and a chamois can anyone help
Ian Taylor | Oct 14, 2010 | Reply
Hi Tracey,
Did you try a solvent? – or something like nanoscrub that is designed for these coatings? – Might be worth a go. Re the foot prints, you may be OK once the coating is removed and a sealer applied, but I have come across similar tiles where they could not be cleaned, or sealed all that effectively – hope you don’t have one of those
Ian
Jo Batchelor | Dec 5, 2010 | Reply
how do i remove the cloudiness from black porcilain tiles i have used:
Grout residue remover
tile and stone stripper
white spirit
fairy liquid
vinigar
what do i do now?
deb Woods | Dec 17, 2010 | Reply
I submitted a comment but it was not published. I spent close to 40,000 dollars on a polished porcelain tile and it’s hyper absorbent! The people we purchased it from are refusing to take any responsibility. At no time of purchase or consult was the staining of this tile mentioned. My husband and I would love to know if there is any cure for this absorbencey? Everyday living is not possible as we cannot have the “stain police” on call for any random drip or spill and cooking is out of the question as oil spatters on any floor. We are so upset and feel we need to have “our day in court”…If anyone has had the same experience with polished porcelain we would appreciate hearing from them.. Thank you Deb
Ian Taylor | Dec 20, 2010 | Reply
Hi Jo,
Sorry I thought I had answered this one.
OK, if the cloudiness is from grout residue, and it is a polymer modified grout then you may have to try a combined approach, Grout residue removers are usually acidic and work on cement. Strippers are usually solvent and work on polymers, sometimes you have to use both together.
If you use a cement remover only it may not be able to act on the cement, if it is protected by a polymer. Conversely, if you use only a solvent then it may soften any polymer but not attack the cement. An approach we often use is to first attempt to soften the polymer by applying a neat solvent (such as Sealer and Coating Remover as it does not evaporate too quickly) Leave this on for at least 30 minutes then, WITHOUT removing the solvent, add a diluted phosphoric-acid-based cement remover (or equivalent, but NOT brick acid/muriatic/Hydrochloric). This way, while the polymer is in a semi solid state, the acid can access any cement that is present. Now scrub both together for a while, mop up the solution, rinse with clean water, and perhaps repeat the process.
This is worth a go as it often works with good results.
Ian
Ian Taylor | Dec 20, 2010 | Reply
Hi Deb,
First of all, I did publish your question, forgive me but I have to screen comments before they are published – (there is just far too much spam around for me to allow comments to auto-publish) – so I have to check them first. However, this blog is a side project, not my ‘day job’ so I can’t always answer things/check comments straight away.
OK, sorry to hear of your issues with the porcelain floor; I think I should say that before spending that amount of money on my floor I would want to make absolutely sure that the materials were exactly what was needed and up to the job. I appreciate that as a customer, you would look to the ‘expertise’ of the tile seller to guide you here, so I have some sympathy with you, but for anyone else reading about to commit to such a large investment, you might take a sample tile home and subject it to a bit of stain testing before you do.
OK, so what can be done, and where do you stand legally? Well I am not qualified to give legal advice, and as I am based in the UK not the USA I would advise you to seek advice from local legal advisers. I have to say though, that in both our countries, it is quite common for this type of problem to arise, far too common for any tile retailer worth their salt to pretend that they have never heard of it. There is a lot of confusion around the word ‘porcelain’ and different people have different understandings of what it means. For clarity, I will give a little background:
When Porcelain tiles first hit the market (must be 25 + years ago now) it could be said that in most cases they did not seed sealing (in deed most of the early Italian materials bearing this name could not be sealed, such was their density and quality). However since then global proliferation of porcelain manufacturing, international price competition and the actual polishing process used by many companies has lead to a wide variety of qualities and standards coming onto the market. I have discussed this many times before so won’t go over it again, suffice it to say that today, some porcelain does not need sealing, but a lot more does. I can understand an older tile salesperson, (say 45 years or older) who may have been in the industry since the first porcelains came out, still clinging to the original ideal that all porcelain is stain proof, but anyone who is still active from that time, must surely have come across this problem by now. A younger person working in the industry for a few years would also, in my opinion, have to have experienced this issue also. The retailer may have in all honesty, believed the tiles they sold you were OK, but I would argue that a good tile retailer should as a matter of course, satisfy him/herself that any tiles they offer are up to the task, and make it their business to know if the tiles they sell need sealing or any other treatment, before they offer them for sale – again , just my opinion.
As for what you can do, well all may not be lost. If the tiles have not stained from the grouting itself and are still clean now, then you could simply seal them with an appropriate impregnating sealer (such as Ultra Solv by Aqua Mix). This won’t affect the tile in any way but it will impart a good deal of stain resistance and repellancy – there is no such thing as ‘stain-proof’ but you will get significant stain resistance and reaction time – in other words the sealer will buy you time to attend to the spills. The other benefit is that at the same time you will seal the grout (which is usually significantly more porous than the tile) and this will help keep the grout looking cleaner for longer.
One thing to watch for is if the tile had any wax coating on them from the factory, if they did then this would need to be stripped first with an alkaline cleaner or something like nanoscrub by Aqua Mix. However, as they appear to be so absorbent, I am guessing that they are not treated like this.
Hope this is of some help
Ian
Garth D'Costa | Nov 23, 2011 | Reply
Hi
I recently had my bathroom fitted with dark charcoal shiny porcelain tiles on both the floor and the walls. Upon closer inspection, virtually all the tiles had grout marks all over them. Some had more than others, but effectively I had faint grey marks across the tiles. After talking with the supplier they said that the tiles needed to be sealed before being installed as they would absorb foreign materials. In my opinion the fitter did not seal before use.
The bathroom fitter has attempted to clean the tiles, but that failed. Then got a buffing tool, and that has also failed to remove the stains.
I would welcome your advice on whether the tiles can be saved with other products or not?
Many Thanks
Garth
Ian Taylor | Nov 28, 2011 | Reply
Hi Garth,
OK, this is a common but difficult problem.
I really think that the article above covers the problem in quite some detail, can I suggest you re-read the article and see if the method I describe helps?
Ian
Julie Kayne | Jan 10, 2012 | Reply
Hi Ian, Hope you might be able to shed some light on my porcelain tile issue. I have read your comments, but would like to know if you think my problem might be different.
I installed a glazed porcelain tile(made in Italy) that looks like a dark walnut, hand scraped hardwood. Before grouting, the floor looked great. After grouting, there were spots on the floor, as if drops from my grouting sponge had dried on the tile. Additionally, I had taped off a section of the tile with painters tape that was next to an unfinished stair strip so that the grout would not stain the wood. When I removed this, there was a definite line. The part where the tape had been was much duller and the rest of the floor had quite a bit of sheen to it. There was no adhesive left from the tape and the only product used was an unsanded grout. Went to the retailer and showed them pictures. They suggested that it might be haze and recommended using a heavy duty haze remover. Tried this with absolutely no success. Laundry detergent that has spilled on the floor is staining it and there is now a dull outline where my dog urinated. The store I purchased from is Floor and Décor. The manager said he looked into this and did not find anyone else commenting about this problem (of course). Said that it sounded like a sealer had been put on the floor, even suggesting that perhaps my contractor had put a sealant in the grout. I told him that I personally installed the floor, and no product other than grout that was recommended by them was used. Suggested that I contact a floor inspector. I reached out to a floor inspector and he basically told me that I would be wasting my money. Even if he thought that there was a problem with the tile or the grout, Floor and Décor would insist that it be tested in a lab. This would result in pulling up some of the tile and all of this would be on my dollar. Said it is extremely difficult to prove and I would just end up wasting my own money. He said that more than likely the glazed tile absorbed some of the polymers used in the grout, especially since it is unsanded and thus very fine. Would this cause the tile to have a sheen? Some of the drip spots almost looked like oil that had been dropped in water, with various colors showing through depending on how the light hit it. Also mentioned that dog urine is very acidic and probably also penetrated the glaze. Is it possible that the dog urine simply removed the sheen that was somehow put on during the grouting process??? At this point, I am not sure what I should do. Any suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated. I have a glazed porcelain tile in my kitchen that has been there for 18 years and never had this problem!!
Ian Taylor | Jan 16, 2012 | Reply
Hi Julie,
Sorry to hear of your troubles,
First thing I would say, and please don’t thinnk I am being picky, but I would like to be sure we are definatley talking about a glazed porcelain?
I say this. as often, people will quite unknowingly confuse a polished porcelain and a glazed one, and the difference is usually significant.
Polished porcelain = a standard porcelain tile which, after firing in the kiln and cooling (it is a finished product at this point) is then mechanically polished with silica carbide blocks, at the tile factory, to grind and polish the tile’s surface until very smooth and can have a glass-like polished finish – so the actual surface of the tile or the ‘body’ of the tile, is brought to a shine
Glazed porcelain = the tile is pressed, then, before firing in the kiln, a liquid or powder glaze is applied (no different to glazed crockery) then it is fired and the glaze forms a decorative layer, a few microns or even mm’s thick on the surface of the tile.
My fist instinct is to think what you have is really a polished porcelain and it is this type of tile we see more problems with, remember the polish is created by grinding away the finer particles of the tile, this gives the smooth, reflective surface, but, it can also open up/take the top off tiny, microcsopic pores, creating a surface which is shiny and smoooth to the touch and certainly to the eye, but has a micro texture that can trap dirt. This is one of the reasons many porcelain manufacturers coat the tile in a ‘transit’ wax.
I am wondering if you have perhaps the opposite probelem to what you are thinkin: instead of the shiny part of the floor being contaminated, and the bit under the tape clean, what if it is the other way around?
let me explain, if there was a trasnit wax on your tile, (there to protect the tile in transit and also to some extent, during installation) then the grouting process, and subesquent associated cleaning, could have removed all the wax, to reveal the true tile surface beneath. The ‘residue’ beneath the tape being the not yet removed wax? – It is perhaps worth just checnking this by trying to clean the edges (where it is dull still) with an alkaline cleaner, if if comes ‘clean’ and reveals the shine, then I susect you have solved the problem.
Not quite sure how to explain the part affected by dog urine, maybe just a deposit /residue from the urine that needs cleaning.
I would check this possibility out first then come back to me if it does not seem to be the case
Hope this helps
Ian
Coliin Madill | Mar 1, 2012 | Reply
Thank you; thank you!! Although we sealed our porcelain tile before grouting, we still got terrible grout and water stains; the same story, dark grout on a light-coloured tile. After using your recommended procedure, we now have clean tiles again! We switched from a penetrating sealer to a stone enhancer and sealer, which seems to work much better. Thanks again.